Meat-free diet six times more likely to suffer brain shrinkage

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"Vitamin B12 status and rate of brain volume loss in community-dwelling elderly." by Vogiatzoglou A1, Refsum H, Johnston C, Smith SM, Bradley KM, de Jager C, Budge MM, Smith AD., published in Neurology. 2008 Sep 9;71(11):826-32. doi: 10.1212/01.wnl.0000325581.26991.f2.


(after @shashiiyengar Twitter post)

(Sorry for not being able to post any comments figures or quotes, the original paper is paywalled!)

Denise Minger's different kinds of magic

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I love her presentation!

Probably not true!

Who is a bastard who wrote "why"?

Magic rocks!   :)

I highly recommend to listen to her video. She is reviewing some old studies showing therapeutic effects of the very low fat high carbohydrate diets (VLFHC). Low fat means well below 10% preferably about 2%. When I begun my high fat low carb experiment back in 1999, which grew into my ongoing lifestyle nutrition to this day, I was aware that the very low fat natural food diet has been successfully used in halting progression of coronary heart disease and MS. I was familiar about Pritikin and Dr. Swank work. Prior to 1999 I was experimenting with vegetarian nutrition but I found it unpalatable, unless a sufficient amount of fat was added. More than 10%. So for me finding dr. Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet was a "gift from God", or I should say a gift from a friend of mine (Andrew S.)! Kwasniewski's Optimal Diet is high animal fat low carb diet (HFLC). After noticing back then that the VLFHC diets have some therapeutic property, I had many questions (i.e. "question everything"). One of them is about the long term viability and the side effects. Like with every therapy, there may be side effects. Are there side effects of VLFHC diets? How do people do on such nutrition scheme fare in the long term? Longevity issue? Longevity with a robust health or not so well? The same question can also be asked about any other diet, including the HFLC diet.

Unlike most other low carb promoters at that time (1970-ties - 1990-ties), dr. Kwasniewski did acknowledge that a high carbohydrate diet may also be healthy, quoting Japanese rice based diet as an example. He also insisted that, on such a diet (1) fat intake must be limited to abut 10% and (2) a sufficient amount of (lean) protein must be consumed. Insulin sensitivity is very high on such a diet because the intake of fat is very low but the pancreatic insulin secretion is medium. Insulin cannot be too low, due to carbohydrate-based metabolism. Typically it amounts to about 20-30 iu per day, based on my understanding and from reports by t1 diabetics (quoting from memory so verify this before you requote me!)

Dr. Kwasniewski also noticed, based on his patients record, that a particular proportion of macronutrients, consisting of about 35-45% of fat (by calories) and about 45-35% of carbohydrates is particulary unhealthy and makes people prone to developing diabetes and atherosclerotic heart disease. Kwasniewski also noticed that it causes a peculiar form of neuro-degeneration for people in their 40-ties and 50-ties manifesting itself in form character disorder (psychopathy). He called that dietary zone "dangerous middle zone". Pancreatic insulin secretion has to be very high (typically 40-60 iu/day or more) on such a diet in order to overcome the insulin insensitivity induced by the high fat intake.

He also noticed that as soon as you up the total fat intake to above 50% of calories then these pathological effects gradually subside and the diet becomes healthy again, even therapeutically healthy. The widely popular diet he publicized in the 1980-ties, arrived at the macronutrient proportions P:F:C (Protein to Fat to Carbohydrates) in gram per day per 1kg of ideal body weight of 1:3-3.5:0.8 to 1:2-2.5:0.5 . This typically works out at way over 60% (typ about 85%) of fat by calories. Notice that fat has 9kcal/g, glucose 4.5kcal/g and protein 3.5kcal/g (or less if used anabolically). Interestingly, Kwasniewski also found that his patients with coronary heart disease begun reversing and recovering. So his patients with many autoimmune disease such as asthma, rheumatoid arthritis, MS, IBS, and other - also recovered on his diet! Even though the HFLC diet is the exact opposite of the VLFHC diet, it nevertheless produced surprisingly similar (if not greater) therapeutic effects! Notice that the insulin sensitivity (and the effect of fat upon it) becomes irrelevant due to very low intake of carbohydrates. Kwasniewski quoted insulin requirement at this point, to be about 6-10 iu/day. How did he measured it? By observing his type 1 diabetic patients!

What Denise Minger has done, is rediscovering and publicizing that fact that there are 2 dietary zones that have therapeutic properties, not just one diet!

What I would disagree with, is her presumption that the VLFHC diet would:

- "results in healthier gut microbiome long term"

There is not proof or comparison studies done for VLFHC vs HFLC on that, while there is enough reports indicating the long term gut flora deterioration among vegans (I would put refs to Dr. Stanley Bass and Dr. Gian-Cursio reports on Natural Hygienists).

- "may do best for ApoE4 carriers"

No proof either, other than high serum cholesterol which does not always translate to a health risk, except for people eating in the dangerous middle zone.

- "may be able to restore and heal glucose tolerance which does not happen on the high fat..."

This is not true based on my personal observation. Initially yes, HFLC diet did not restore my glucose tolerance, it only allowed my body to bypass the issue by not showering my body with the excess carbohydrates. Whenever I tried to eat a little bit more than 50g of carbohydrates in a day, I would inevitably come to regret it! Carb-headache and nausea. Beer was especially bad for me. However, after about 2 years I noticed that I was able to increase that limit and add more than previously and after about 6-7 years I noticed that my carbohydrates tolerance has been totally restored! For example I can now consume a high carb dinner if I have no other choice without any adverse side effects. I don't do it often, but it is nice to know that my metabolism has completely been restored. I suspect it has to do with the mitochondrial regeneration. It takes about 7 years to regrow and renew most of our muscular tissues from our stem cells. I also found it that initially I had to watch not only the total carbohydrates intake, but I also had to limit the overall caloric intake from fat as well. Initially the total limit was about 1800kcal. Believe it or not that is actually perfectly sufficient for an adult leading an active life on the high fat diet, without any problems (I was 43 in 1999 when I begun HFLC and I weigh 64k, 173cm height) It was as if my metabolic channels were impaired for both macronutrients, for carbs as well as for fat, except the metabolism of fat, being more effective, allowed me to live better and have more energy in spite of the limitations. Again, that restriction is no longer applicable and lifted itself after about 7 years.

Stan (Heretic) Bleszynski

vegan diet lowers muscle mass and doesn't protect against oxidative damage

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"Effect of restriction vegan diet's on muscle mass, oxidative status, and myocytes differentiation: A pilot study", Vanacore D. et al., J Cell Physiol. 2018 Dec;233(12) 

Quote:

...we observed a significant decrease in muscle mass index and lean body mass in vegan compared to vegetarian and omnivore groups, and higher serum homocysteine levels in vegetarians and vegans compared to omnivores. ... The results obtained in this study demonstrated that restrictive vegan diet could not prevent the onset of metabolic and cardiovascular diseases nor protect by oxidative damage.

Wiki veganism

vegan diet may make one mentally disabled

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Being Vegan Makes You Mentally Disabled, Warns Top Danish Doctor

Dr. Allan Lund of Rigshospitalet in Copenhagen highlighted the risks of a vegan lifestyle for young people in an ​appearance last week on Danish TV.

“Such a diet may involve developing different brain symptoms, with muscle weakness, poor contact, and epilepsy,” he told TV4. "And in the long term mental retardation."

According to Lund, his hospital has recently treated a number of vegan kids with such problems.

The news program aired amid a national debate in Denmark over the growing phenomenon of parents putting their children on a plant-based diet.

Wiki: By Ferdous - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0,

Update 24/12/2018
For adults, also infertility risk and bone fractures:

Food intake diet and sperm characteristics in a blue zone: a Loma Linda Study."

Veganism, vegetarianism, bone mineral density, and fracture risk: a systematic review and meta-analysis

"Save" the World at your own risk, without actually saving anything. All risk (of wiping-out humanity) and no benefit!

Vegan psychopath

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Pennsylvania Vegan Loses Food Truck Business After Celebrating Murder of ‘Meat Eaters’ in Las Vegas

Mental health risk of going meatless

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New article:

The Scary Mental Health Risks of Going Meatless
Vegetarianism can come with some unexpected side effects.
BY JILL WALDBIESER December 2, 2015

Quote:

Her symptoms were sudden and severe. Drew Ramsey's 35-year-old patient had always been fit and active, but her energy had flatlined. When she did manage to drag herself to the gym, it didn't help. She felt anxious and was often on the verge of tears for no reason, even when she was with friends. Worst of all were her panic attacks, a rare occurrence in the past but now so common that she was afraid of losing her job ...

Sure enough, six weeks after adding animal protein back onto her plate, her energy rebounded and her panic attacks dropped by 75 percent.

Her case is far from unique. "I hear from vegetarians every day; they have this terrible depression and anxiety, and they don't understand why," says Lierre Keith, author of The Vegetarian Myth. "People think they're eating a beautiful, righteous diet, but they don't realize there's a potential dark side."

It's true that many of America's estimated 8 million vegetarians are drawn to the diet's promise of a healthier weight, heart, and planet. They pass on beef, poultry, and pork, unaware that a growing body of research suggests a link between going meatless and an elevated risk for serious mental disorders.

...
So it was startling last year when Australian researchers revealed that vegetarians reported being less optimistic about the future than meat eaters. What's more, they were 18 percent more likely to report depression and 28 percent more likely to suffer panic attacks and anxiety. A separate German study backs this up, finding that vegetarians were 15 percent more prone to depressive conditions and twice as likely to suffer anxiety disorders.

Another vegan myth bites the dust!

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I found the link, of all places on Dr. Michael (VeganMD) Greger site.  (Thanks EG!)

from Wiki

"The Impact of Dietery Protein..."

Quote:

Abstract

Although high-protein diets induce hypercalciuria in humans, the source of the additional urinary calcium remains unclear. One hypothesis is that the high endogenous acid load of a high-protein diet is partially buffered by bone, leading to increased skeletal resorption and hypercalciuria. We used dual stable calcium isotopes to quantify the effect of a high-protein diet on calcium kinetics in women. The study consisted of 2 wk of a lead-in, well-balanced diet followed by 10 d of an experimental diet containing either moderate (1.0 g/kg) or high (2.1 g/kg) protein. Thirteen healthy women received both levels of protein in random order. Intestinal calcium absorption increased during the high-protein diet in comparison with the moderate (26.2 +/- 1.9% vs. 18.5 +/- 1.6%, P < 0.0001, mean +/- sem) as did urinary calcium (5.23 +/- 0.37 vs. 3.57 +/- 0.35 mmol/d, P < 0.0001, mean +/- sem). The high-protein diet caused a significant reduction in the fraction of urinary calcium of bone origin and a nonsignificant trend toward a reduction in the rate of bone turnover. There were no protein-induced effects on net bone balance. These data directly demonstrate that, at least in the short term, high-protein diets are not detrimental to bone.

------------------------------------------------------------------
Off topic, a joke "du jour", had to post it, couldn't help it...
8-:D

(From a vegan forum by Katydid)

I wish I could find the link to where I learned this (I think it was in Dr. Klaper's "Foods that Kill" video), but you can think of a fully saturated (hydrogenated) fat like a straight inflexible stick. As it flows through the bloodstream the stiffness of the molecule causes it to "poke" at the lining of the blood vessels and cause irritation. A mono or polyunsaturated fat has missing hydrogen atoms that allow the fat molecule to flex, so it causes less damage as it flows through the bloodstream. So if you substitute say, olive or canola oil for butter or lard, you'll improve your heart health by reducing the constant irritation to your blood vessels"

Higher stroke risk for vegetarians who exercise vigorously!

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This is part of a conclusion obtained from a recent Taiwanese research (thanks Dav0). The following Taipei Times article discusses the results:

Local researcher provides formula to predict strokes

Quotes:

After analyzing the medical records of 500,000 people, National Health Research Institute researcher Wen Chi-pang (溫啟邦) found that there are five main factors that affect the probability of a stroke: if a person is a smoker, a vegetarian, or overweight, and if they exercise to either extreme or drink alcohol.
...
For example, a 60-year-old male vegetarian with normal body weight, who smokes, drinks and does not exercise, would have an 11.1 percent chance of suffering a stroke in the next 10 years, Wen said. The probability would soar to 84.7 percent if the man is also overweight and exercises vigorously.
...
While the ideal cholesterol level for people is between 200mg per deciliter and 300mg per deciliter, studies in Taiwan and abroad show that vegetarians usually have a level of below 130mg per deciliter — which makes them twice as likely as those with an ideal level to suffer a hemorrhagic stroke, he said.
A reading of 160mg per deciliter means a person will have a 50 percent higher chance of suffering a hemorrhagic stroke than those who do not, the researcher said. Vegetarians tend to have lower cholesterol levels because they lack certain nutrients obtained from meat, he said. This does not just increase their chances of stroke, but also of developing cancer, he added.

Low-energy diets render motor neurons vulnerable to degeneration

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This paper is a bit old but I am posting it to keep it in focus for a discussion.   Please notice that low fat vegan diets often tend to be "low energy"!

Mattson MP, Cutler RG, Camandola S. Energy intake and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. Neuromolecular Med. 2007;9(1):17-20

Abstract

Roy Walford, a physician and scientist who pioneered research on the anti-aging effects of caloric restriction and subjected himself to a low-energy diet, recently died from amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). Information from his case, epidemiological findings, and recent controlled studies in mouse models of ALS suggest that low-energy diets might render motor neurons vulnerable to degeneration, whereas high-energy diets are ameliorative. This contrasts with the effects of low-energy diets on various neuronal populations in the brain that respond adaptively, activating pathways that promote plasticity and resistance to disease. One reason that motor neurons might be selectively vulnerable to low-energy diets is that they are unable to engage neuroprotective responses to energetic stress response involving the protein chaperones, such as, heat-shock protein-70 [*].


--------------------------

*) In addition to that, ketone bodies (often very low on low-energy diets) would have been protective against neural damage caused by the stress response, see:
Ketone bodies protect neurons from stress hormone-induced damage

------- added 28/01 -------------------

This video  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-PzhyTlODc illustrates what kind of diet did Dr. Walford followed for about 10 years before his death (see around 7m into video). 

Vegan promoter warns vegans against Parkinson's!

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This is 2 years old, I just rediscovered it in my heretical files.  Worth reading.

-------------------

From Dr. Fuhrman's latest e-mail [around Apr 02, 2009] :

Leaders of the Vegan Movement Develop Parkinson's: Case Studies

Herbert Shelton (1895 - 1985) a naturopath and chiropractor and the influential founder of the American Natural Hygiene Society and Nature Cure movement in America and prolific health writer advocated a natural food vegetarian diet of mostly raw fruits, vegetables and nuts. I read all of his highly motivating books, newsletters and writings in my teens. He lived in Texas, was physically fit, grew lots of his own food and ate carefully and fasted periodically. Of course he did not get cancer, he did not get heart disease, but he died of Parkinson's disease and was so severely affected by the age of 78 that even walking was difficult. In 1973 when I met him he was already severely hunched over and had a difficult time walking and caring for himself. Though he lived many years with this significant disability, the quality of his later years was extremely poor.

Prominent Vegetarian and Health Advocate - this leader in the natural health movement and a personal friend to me also suffered from and eventually died from a fall related to his Parkinson's disease. During his young adult life he embarked on the path of healthy living and vegetarianism. A follower of Shelton's works, he operated a large health food store, one of the first to sell organic fruits and vegetables in America; he became a leader in the health food industry. Of course he was not at risk of cancer or heart disease with his excellent diet, but he developed Parkinson's which limited the quality of his later years.

When he was developing his Parkinsonian tremors, I ordered blood tests and was shocked to see his blood results showing almost a zero DHA [*] level on his fatty acid test, in spite of adequate ALA consumption from nuts and seeds eaten daily. I had never seen a DHA level that low before. Since that time I have drawn DHA blood levels on other patients with Parkinson's and also found very low DHA levels.
Was it a coincidence, that these leaders in the natural food, vegetarian movement, who ate a very healthy vegan diet and no junk food would both develop Parkinson's? I thought to myself--could it be that deficiencies in DHA predispose one to Parkinson's? Do men have worse ability to convert short chain omega-3 into long chain DHA? Is that why Parkinson's affects more men than women? Is there evidence to suggest that DHA deficiencies lead to later life neurologic problems? Are there primate studies to show DHA deficiencies in monkeys leads to Parkinson's? The answer to all of these questions is a resounding, yes. 
....
 [read further on  http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11105 ]

-----------------------

*) DHA - Docosahexanoic acid, omega-3 type of fat commonly present in animal produce, especially in brain, spinal cord, nerves and egg yolks.  This type of fat is generally not present in plant based products, with very few exceptions (some algae).

In addition, a high carb nutrition would probably offer less natural protection against neuro degenerative diseases because of low level of ketone bodies.  For example non-ketogenic diet would be less protective against stress-induced neural damage, see:  Ketone bodies protect neurons from stress hormone-induced damage
.

Alzheimer's, B12 and homocysteine - vegans beware!

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 Sunny Side Up (Wikipedia)

This is based on the newly published Scandinavian study:
Homocysteine and holotranscobalamin and the risk of Alzheimer disease

Quote:

Results: The odds ratios (ORs) (95% confidence interval [CI]) for AD were 1.16 (1.04–1.31) per increase of 1 µmol/L of tHcy at baseline and 0.980 (0.965–0.995) for each increase of 1 pmol/L baseline holoTC.

Notice how did the authors skillfully manage to conceal the impact (really huge!) - by not putting the risk ratio over the full range in the abstract. Instead they mitigated their grant-loosing risk by showing only an incremental change per 1umol/L or per 1pmol/L of the intependent varaibles. (Note: tHcy=homocysteine, holoTC=B12, AD=Alzheimer's Disease).

The impact seems to be huge indeed, based on some quick-and-dirty calculations of the typical tHcy and B12 variability among some populations. Taking two other studies (see [1] and [2] below) giving the average difference between vegetarians and non-vegetarians for tHcy and B12 ( 2.6 to 12.3 umol/L and -94 to -195 pmol/L respectively),   applying the above incremental ratios of (1.16 and 0.980 respectively) one obtains the estimated ralative risk ratio for AD for vegetarians versus non-vegetarians of: 1.5 to 6.2 based on the homocysteine, and 6.7 to 51 based on the B12 data.

(Disclaimer: risk ratio estimates that are based on statistical data do not prove nor disprove causuation.)

My conclusion: the study indicates that the B12 defficiency as well as (independently) high homocysteine seem to be very strong predictors of Alzheimer's disease risk. The overal risk estimate is also much stronger than the washed-out figures presented in the paper's abstract. This should be of utmost importance for vegans and vegetarians!

See also:


1. Effect of Vegetarian Diet on Homocysteine Levels

2. Plasma Homocysteine Levels in Taiwanese Vegetarians Are Higher than Those of Omnivores

3. BBC Health News: Vitamin B12 link to Alzheimer's backed by study

4. BBC Health News: Vitamin B 'puts off Alzheimer's'

.

High plasma AGE and platelet hyperaggregability in vegans

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More deficiencies have been shown (than just B12,A,D3,K2,EPA,DHA) to be inherent in vegan diets. Taurine supplementation may be necessary for some vegans. Taurine is amino-acid not present in plants, and can only be obtained from animal produce.

1) Sub-optimal taurine status may promote platelet hyperaggregability in vegetarians.

Quote:

Plasma taurine levels are lower, and urinary taurine excretion is substantially lower, in vegetarians than in omnivores. Platelets are rich in taurine, which functions physiologically to dampen the calcium influx evoked by aggregating agonists--thereby down-regulating platelet aggregation. Supplemental intakes of taurine as low as 400 mg daily have been reported to markedly decrease the sensitivity of platelets to aggregating agonists ex vivo.

2) The low-AGE content of low-fat vegan diets could benefit diabetics - though concurrent taurine supplementation may be needed to minimize endogenous AGE production.

Quote:

Nonetheless, the plasma AGE content of healthy vegetarians has been reported to be higher than that of omnivores - suggesting that something about vegetarian diets may promote endogenous AGE production. Some researchers have proposed that the relatively high-fructose content of vegetarian diets may explain this phenomenon, but there so far is no clinical evidence that normal intakes of fructose have an important impact on AGE production. An alternative or additional possibility is that the relatively poor taurine status of vegetarians up-regulates the physiological role of myeloperoxidase-derived oxidants in the generation of AGEs - in which case, taurine supplementation might be expected to suppress elevated AGE production in vegetarians.

3) A taurine-supplemented vegan diet may blunt the contribution of neutrophil activation to acute coronary events.

Quote:

Taurine has anti-atherosclerotic activity in animal models, possibly reflecting a role for macrophage-derived myeloperoxidase in the atherogenic process. Taurine also has platelet-stabilizing and anti-hypertensive effects that presumably could reduce coronary risk.

.

Does vegan diet weaken bones?

A recently published pre-anounced study report postulated that vegans have somewhat (marginally) lower bone density than non-vegans.

I just noticed Dr. McDougall's response to it that totally cracked me up! Basically he is saying that a paper by the same author that he previously quoted, has shown no difference in bone density among vegan nuns vs non-vegans (which Dr.McDougall calls "favorable"!!!) therefore it has to be right whereas the present pre-announced paper by the same author now does show some differences unfavorable to the vegans, therefore the author must have been corrupted by some Malaysian dairy corporation. I am not making that up, you can read his response yourself here.

If a plant based nutrition is supposed to be good for the bones, according to Dr.McDougall, how come that his own staff lecturer should wear a weighted vest or backpack to maintain his bone mass?

A digression: that study states as a side note that 5% of the Western population are vegetarian, which makes me wonder how come that there is no mention of vegetarians among centenarians here or mention only a tiny 0.35% fraction in that study - perhaps they don't live very long?

--- updated 23/09/2009 ---
Another interesting study (thanks JC):
"Effect of vegetarian diets on bone mineral density: a Bayesian meta-analysis"

Fuhrman's diet - repeat of the Natural Hygienist's dead end

I thought of rehashing this issue on behalf of my friends and fans (just kidding) from the WebMD forum, especially one person who seems to be doing much better on Dr. Fuhrman's diet and his IMT scan as a measure of arteriosclerotic progression started even reversing as opposed to his previous 30 years on a Pritikin vegan/vegetarian diet. Even though the following text is addressed to EngineerGuy of the webmd forum, I hope that more people will benefit reading it. I am encouraging everyone to read and add comments.

All Dr. Fuhrman did was reintroducing blended salads and added a little bit of meat or fish plus liberal amounts of nuts which are still in severe anathema pronounced by other vegan propagators. One can consider Fuhrman's diet to have 90% in common with the purist vegans like Drs McDougall or Ornish but that 10% difference has made ALL THE DIFFERENCE! What is happening here is that it seems that the 90% compliant vegans seem to be doing better than the 100% compliant vegans!

I think that this little addition of animal produce and nuts has made a huge difference by addressing some of the vitamin deficiencies inherent in the plant-only diets.

That deficiency is not only in B12. I was surprised to find out that some vegans suffer from obvious and easily measurable vitamin deficiencies, even vitamin A in spite of consuming massive amounts of beta carotene! Many seem to suffer from tooth decay, low bone density and/or osteoporosis which would point towards deficiencies of D3,K2 or some other factor. Neurological problems (mood disorders, depression, panic attacks) seem to be associated with the deficiencies of DHA and EPA (fatty acids) in my opinion (this is only my speculative guess, I have no proof).

There is also a possibility that the malnutrition symptoms among some vegans may be caused not only by their deficient diet (note: vitamin D2 and K1 can be obtained from plants, but their proper human forms D3 and K2 cannot!) but also by some intestinal digestive disruption. That possibility was first discovered and proposed as a possible explanation by Natural Hygienists. See Dr. Stanley Bass and read "With Three Generations of Vegetarian Hygienists" by Dr. Gian-Cursio. After suffering many health setbacks on their pure raw food vegan diets, including death of Dr. Cursio's son, they treated them with fasts every few months, followed by some special recovery diet that involved unpasteurized goat's cheese and eggs yolks. Dr. Cursio also introduced (and perhaps invented) the blended salads. (Note: Dr. Bass no longer recommends vegetarian diets, for which he was kicked out of the Natural Hygiene movement, after his life long participation). I am inclined to believe that their recovery approach and explanation may be correct, given the intestinal-disruptive properties of many plants. I think that the absorption problems are related to some plant phyto-toxins from wheat family (I suspect gluten and agluttins like WGA) and the cabbage family of plants (digestive enzyme inhibitors and thyroid hormone disruptors). Fasting would allow the intestinal lining tissue to regenerate itself and recover after excessive raw consumption of those plants.

I am bringing the Natural Hygienist's article to illustrate that Dr. Fuhrman is following in the footsteps of the people who tried that all before him and eventually had to abandon that approach, after many years of trials tribulations and errors. I recommend to learn from their mistakes. Dr. Bass wasted probably ~60 years of his life along this path and is kind enough to inform us of his experience. I am grateful to him since I don't have to go though all this!

Neither should you, after already wasting 30 years of your life on some vegetarianism, you don't need to waste another 30 years on some slightly less harmful variation of the same thing.

P.S. (2/07)

Dr. Bass describes how his fruitarian dietary experiment destroyed his teeth. It turns out that the damage might not be limited to fruitarian diets:

Vegetarian diet 'weakens bones'

Very-Low-Fat Diets: What Are the Benefits?

JC from the WebMD Diet Debate forum posted the following slide - see beside and the reference below (thanks!). The author's conclusions do not surprize me. MI ("heart attack") events depend on the quality (type) of plaque more than on the quantity of plaque. Excess polyunsaturated fats (e.g. popular vegetable oils) lead probably to abnormalities in the composition of cellular structures that use fats, such as cellular membranes. This probably affects mostly the newly grown tissue such as scar tissue and the plaque tissue (plaque is a scar tissue!). The bulk of the plaque on the other hand, according to Dr. Jan Kwasniewski ("Homo Optimus"), results from excessive pentose cycle that synthesizes fats (and NADP, RNA etc) in-situ inside the arterial walls. Pentose cycle is on the other hand driven by excessive carbohydrates (plus a few other conditions such as reduced availability of oxygen, lack of magnesium etc).

If that hypothesis is true then one could perhaps draw the following general guidelines:

- To reduce the overall plaque buildup - consume less carbohydrates!

- To reduce the risk of MI events (once the plaque exists) - reduce consumption of vegetable oils and artificial baking fats (polyunsaturated fats, transfats)

Please notice that low fat vegan diets also reduce vegetable fats by discouraging all fats. They also may reduce the total glycemic load. Interestingly, when you stop eating fat, liver will manufacture some of the necessary fats internally - mostly saturated fat! Did anyone notice that this theory is the only one that explain why both types of diets: low fat vegan (sometimes) and high animal fat low carb (always) may reduce the risk of MI?!

------

Reference:

Very-Low-Fat Diets: What Are the Benefits?

Effects of Lifestyle and Dietary Modification on HDL-C Levels (Margo A. Denke, MD)

Snacking and glucose/ketogenic cycling

This is a theory, very speculative. I came to think about it, inspired after reading the latest articles by Peter (Hyperlipid blog, see also his Kitava articles). I am thinking about the effect of frequent snacking in between the meals on a high carb diet, may be more damaging than we thought. Under a healthy metabolism, even on a high carb diet, one's body goes back to ketogenic state some time after every meal, when most body tissues revert back to using lipids and ketone bodies as fuel. This should happen in between the meals providing that the body is given enough time to burn glucose off and to switch. On the other hand, any time one eats something sugary or starchy in between the meals, insulin inrush causes the body to switch back to glucose processing state, turning off production of ketone bodies and turns off the release of adipose fat into bloodstream. It takes about 1-2 hours to work out all that insulin peak. Probably longer for older people.

For some reason, our bodies probably require this alternating between glucose-burning/ketogenic cycles to be done throughout the day to work properly. This is based upon the assumption that ketogenic mode is essential for the body and must take place at least some of the time throughout the day, every day. I suspect that frequent snacking on a high carbohydrate diet derails that cycling and may be one of main triggering factors behind the development of the metabolic syndrome.

From my personal observation, one can notice that people who are used to snack frequently are often obese and often have metabolic syndrome. Perhaps there is a causual connection? Perhaps it is not just what and how much one eats but how often and when?

Diets based on natural whole food like our vegetarian friends recommend, usually discourage sugary or starchy snacks, or discourage consumption of the processed food that forms the typical fast food snacks. It makes snacking more difficult, especially that preparation of meals out of natural unprocessed whole food is time consuming and labor intensive. Perhaps that may be one of the reason why such whole food natural diets are often helpful?

Of course, the high fat low carb diets make that issue irrelevent since a high fat snack would not cause the glucose+insulin spike thus would not break the ketogenic mode. This could be another reason why the high fat low carb diets work so well!

Just some thought,
Stan (Heretic)

Carbohydrates and Diabetes

Response for TG (on McDougall forum)

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8095&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I know you have studied this issue and you did notice that your glucose response is dependent on the carbohydrate load (primarily) while other factors such as the presence of fat may only modulate the insulin sensitivity somewhat but it is not the main factor. The main factor is the total glycemic load ( GL = GI * mass of carbs ).

Typically, our insulin response is equal to about 10 insulin units per every 100g of carbohydrate (GL). It is as simple as that and no amount of wiggling or waving by vegan followers with their refined versus natural theories; potatoes versus rice versus sweet potateoes etc., is going to change this.

Your blood glucose post-prandial peaks at 140mg/dl are on the higher limit of the normal (on a high carbohydrate diet) and probably indicate that your insulin secretion may be insufficient (as I wrote before check against dm t1) or that your tissue became insulin resistant (metabolic syndrome).

Insulin resistance depends on the amount of fat you consume with the carbohydrates but important is also that you allow a time of metabolic rest in between the meals. This is the period when the body wants to switch from burning glucose to burning lipids (from body fat) and ketone bodies.

Preventing the appearance of such a cycle of rest in-between the meals, through frequent snacking may be one of the culprit behind the metabolic syndrome.

There are two ways of preventing metabolic syndrome:

1) Eat low fat high carbohydrate natural low glycemic food (vegetarianism is not necessary and probably not even relevant) and make long breaks between the meals to allow for the ketogenic cycle in between the meals

2) Eat a low carbohydrate high ANIMAL fat meals. Avoid polyunsaturated oils and transfats! In this case snacking in between the meals is not harmful as long as it is with fat only, not with carbohydrates (the reason is that fatty snacks do not break the ketogenic "resting" cycle).

Both styles of eating 1 or 2 will result in low average insulin level in between the meals, and will protect you against the chronic diseases associated with the metabolic syndrome such as CHD, cancer and autoimmune. Such disease are associated with the elevated insulin level rather than with the glucose itself. Kidney failure however, is related to glucose peaks since every time it exceeds 160mg/dl, it forces kidneys to excrete glucose. Other risk factors have different causes. For example diabetic neuropathy (and retinal damage) is probably more associated with fructose leakage to the bloodstream than with glucose.

If you decide to follow (2) then do not try to avoid fat. The more fat (animal, saturated and monounsaturated) the better it works. There is absolutely no need to worry about the heart disease since it is the insulin, not fat, in particular not animal fat, that seems to be the main growth promoter for arterial plaque and arteriosclerosis. For example, see R.W. Stout http://www.ptbo.igs.net/~stanb/Lancet_Stout_pg_702.pdf and http://www.ptbo.igs.net/~stanb/Lancet_Stout_pg_467.pdf

Besides if what I am saying were wrong and McDougall's crowd were right, I wouldn't be typing it. I would be dead. Over in the last 9 years I have been consuming about 150g (to 200g) of butter, cream or pork lard every day. If you read this message it means it's true! :)

Stan (Heretic)