The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it. ... In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Wednesday, November 28, 2012

Milk and butter are good for you!

"India's poster boy for vegetarianism – he's just fathered a child at 96" (2012)

He has been a strict vegetarian and has never drank alcohol. Instead, his diet is made up of fresh milk, clarified butter, vegetables and chapattis.

The Independent TUESDAY 27 NOVEMBER 2012

More details from another article (John, thanks!) :

"At 94, Indian Ramjit Raghav Is World’s Oldest Father" (2010)

My daily diet comprises three litres of milk, half a kilo of almonds and half a kilo of ghee [clarified butter].

Note: ~800g of pure fat or 7200kCal seems too much fat for 1 person. I suspect this amount must be for the entire family! For instance, my fat intake is only about 100-200g a day.

More longevity surprize (different man, Nanu Ram Jogi):

"World's oldest father has 21st child at 90" (2007)


Mr Jogi, who attributes his remarkable virility to daily walks and plenty of meat, said: "I eat all kinds of meat - rabbits, lamb, chicken and wild animals."



FredT said...

That is raw milk and unpasteurized butter of course, both not available here. The government does not want use to live after we stop producing and start drawing pensions.

Stan (Heretic) said...

Producing? I don't think the elites want anybody to produce anything either. Besides the fact that production is here generally unprofitable and bad for the environment, they can always get their central bankers print more money in exchange for more debt they issue, while buying all they need from China. Just kidding. Or may be not...

Anonymous said...

On sites like this, I read this with "milk and butter" in bold text, and that he lives this long thanks to the fat. All that fat must make up for the negative effects of the wheat (chapattis) and the absence of meat.

On vegetarian sites, I will read this with "vegetables and chapattis" in bold text, and that he lives this long thanks to the vegetables and wheat, and absence of meat. All that fiber must make up for the negative effects of all that fat.

So, can I add wheat back in to my diet now?


Nevertheless, good for him.

john said...

I've seen that his diet is ghee, milk, and almonds (not chapatis). He claims to eat a half kilo ghee and almonds along with 3 litres of milk per day: It all seems fishy...

The other old father Ram Jogi, eats high amounts of meat and milk:

Stan (Heretic) said...


Certainly you can! 8-:)

Yes we are all selective and see what we want to see and, however, please keep in mind that, according to the Scientific Method one contrary experimental example invalidates a theory!

Even one man who lives long and thrives on animal fat or on animal fat and meat disproves the theory of Drs Campbell, Esselstyn, McDougall, Ornish at al.. It shows that their theory and belief system is based on bullshit rather than science.

Stan (Heretic) said...


Thanks for the follow up, I have added your link and some quotes to the main post.

It is interesting to know that there is a lesser known high fat dietary practice in India, based on mostly ghi and very little else. Also, Ayurvedic dietary recommendation for the ascetic lean body types (Vata) are precisely such: fat and meat, less starch.

Such practices are however virtually unknown in the West where the Eastern Mysticism and Spirituality is mistakenly associated with vegetarianism. It was unfortunately brought and popularized by gurus like Yogananda (vegan who died on diabetes in his fifties) or his successor (who died of heart attack in his sixties).

Elinor Phillips said...

Whew.. its not easy to have a diet like that, you need strict discipline. I like the idea though. In connection to milk, researchers are now trying to develop how milk can be an alternative treatments for cancer patients.

Stan (Heretic) said...

Elinor, on that clinic web site, the first item on their therapy list is:

"Diet, possibly Vegetarian, low sugar."



Gladina said...

I think I know why 'vegan' diets are prescribed for cancer patients (in particular). It is to rapidly detox the body using 'cleaners and detoxifiers' which you get from vegetables and fruit.

If one generalises that to say 'fat is bad and meat is bad' that is a gross error/generalization. I kind of DO think that a strict vegan diet might help cancer patients to have that initial detox a la Gerson protocol from the 1920's. Btw, this would induce ketosis to some extent too, since the body is being flushed of toxins etc. and the body would be relying on ketone bodies for fuel source since there would be no exogenous proteins and fats.

Of course, once the person is past a few months of detoxing, you want to re-build the detoxifying pathways in the body and build immunity again. You want to (continue) with fermented foods and bone stocks and broths.

I am reading the work of Dr. Natasha Campbell McBride. Her GAPS protocol seems quite comprehensive. Her attitude is also very good too as it focuses on re-building the gut and does not have a restrictive attitude. Also, her writings do not come across as manic at all, which is what I was starting to feel with Jack Kruse blog. *Please note that he offered a lot of information for me, and my knowledge has grown significantly. I am very grateful for that and I have greatly benefited from his protocols in the last year. However I am ready to approach nutrition etc. with a less restrictive approach. This does not mean cookies and pop; not at all. It means though, that if I feel like a piece of sourdough bread, then I will have a piece of sourdough bread and not get all 'worried' if it's going to suddenly cause MASSIVE problems (which seems to be the tone that I get from a blog like JK: So I was getting a bad attitude a little bit where I was getting too worried over minute details). In other words I was losing my sense of intuition. I was feeling like I could not trust ANY decisions of my own. I don't think that's good. It was by my own accord that I decided to include betaine hcl, and digestive enzyme and not based on anyone else, but my own thinking of how my body works. I also upped my fermented food intake since reading about GAPS (b/c my focus got distracted away from fermented foods from JK; even though he promotes fermented foods: but with the 'epi-paleo' and seafood I mistakingly overlooked fermented foods importance and thought I was 'immune' with all the seafood). I also increase my beef marrow stocks/broths.

I feel a lot more relief these days since this shift in attitude (but I had to clear my gut first b/c I 'did' develop some trouble). So, after some time 'learning' I am able to develop a better sense of intuition again and to trust my body; since my body is not a sugar craver I think I can trust it.

Also, I do eat honey and in -season fruits such as apples; fresh or dried. I quite enjoy these fruits and honey.

So, I will monitor how my body responds to these adaptations in my diet over the next few months. Hopefully not some 'dreadful inflammation' occurs. **It's also partially because I do not want to re-experience metabolic/immune failure that I experienced last year...**

Stan (Heretic) said...

Hi Gladina,

I agree that Jack K. comes through as a little bit manic but one doesn't have to follow him in everything and to an exclusion of other thoughts, plus his ideas are I think mostly correct. My experience in applying cold stimulus under ketogenic diet condition is totally confirming his observations!

I would not consider vegetable based diets to be detoxifying, in fact I suspect the opposite is true: plants bring their specific toxins, some less so, some are more toxic than the other, which our body may have a difficult time to detoxifying.

The biggest detoxifier for our body is the liver and thus the truly detoxifying diet is the one which produces the least amount of work for the liver. The best detoxifying diet is the high fat diet which comes in 2 versions:

1) detoxifying fast when a patients takes only water while burning off his own body fat,

2) high saturated fat and mono-unsaturated fat diet.

Both have a similar benefitioal effects with the exception of a case when a patient is too thin to have a significant body fat. In that case number 2 is the only reasonable option.

Did you notice that virtually all vegan diet promoters advocate "detoxifying water fasts". What exactly are they detoxifying their clients from? From plant toxins!



Gladina said...

I appreciate your clear and to the point answers.

Ah, I see about the plant matters. I was thinking about what Campbell McBride says regarding veggies and fruit (which of course she does not promote vegan diet at all---she promotes high (saturated) diet etc.).

I agree very much about the liver. I have really come to focus on providing my liver the best environment.

I do have to admit that I am coming out of a long 'recovery if you will', and my mentality is a little bit on focusing on 'loosening the reigns' a little. I have actually increased my fat intake over the last two weeks because I discovered I accidentally let that fall (but not in favour for higher was mainly all seafood, and I honestly don't think I was a. eating enough b. assimilating nutrients that well (due to budget constraints and/or not 'aware' of what I was doing.

As stated before I have significantly upped my fermented food intake (in the form of goat yoghurt, kefir and fermented veggies), as well as meat stocks/broths (which include lots of seaweed too). I have to admit that I have added a bit of sourdough bread *gasp*. For example, I fried some of it in a coconut oil and I put my eggs on top of it (with side of salmon). I also enjoy butter nut squash. I do prefer it to sweet potatoes even. I have to monitor my body/reaction over the next little while to see if this is OK for me or not.

I still enjoy cold exposure to some degree, but I am not as aggressive as I was last year when I employed it (a la JK). It really helped tremendously. I feel that my situation is different (improved) from last year so I feel that I do not need to be as aggressive.

Again, I am trying to develop my sense of intuition and I do not want a 'bad reasoning' to interfere here, but I feel very healthy and robust, so hopefully that is a good indicator. Of course, testing is always a good idea; the bio markers would truly tell me where I am at.

*For example I had some tests a month ago, and based on those tests is what allowed me to determine that I would greatly benefit from betaine HCL (and bile salts). I just want my liver to be happy---to detoxify very well for me (but also to allow me to 'enjoy' a little bit too. (Not even asking for chips cookies and know what I mean?

Stan (Heretic) said...

Interesting that you mentioned developing a sense of intuition. I find that to be the main live-saving skill. A good intuitive skill will help you find and tweak any therapy or a diet when you need it. I was helped enormously by dreams. I often write them down to reinforce the messages and allow action followups. Also for me learning coordinate remote viewing technique 15 years ago (a great health diagnostics tool BTW) opened a floodgate of other intuitive skills and started the process of my transformation.

Gladina said...

Thanks again.

I just ate some bone marrow soup. It is deliciously filling. Yes, I think winter is prime time for stocks/broths and ferments.

john said...

Sort of regarding nutritional intuition: I have noticed that over time, becoming more and more aware of my instincts, I desire fewer vegetables and fewer complex dishes (like curry). Sweet things affect me like a drug, where behavior is reinforced despite not enjoying the taste much. Simple stews, broths, and fermented foods have become favorites.

Also, large carbohydrate meals always make me feel off, but I wonder if there is a psychosomatic component at work. Sometimes I swear it's as if I can feel the difference between dominant glucose and fatty acid oxidation--during exercise too.

Edward Edmonds said...

Bergamo, P., Gogliettino, M., Palmieri, G., Cocca, E., Maurano, F., Stefanile, R., … Rossi, M. (2011). Conjugated linoleic acid protects against gliadin-induced depletion of intestinal defenses. Molecular nutrition & food research, 55 Suppl 2, S248–56. doi:10.1002/mnfr.201100295

SCOPE: The involvement of oxidative stress in gluten-induced toxicity has been evidenced in vitro and in clinical studies but has never been examined in vivo. We recently demonstrated the protective activity of conjugated linoleic acid (CLA), which functions by the activation of nuclear factor erythroid 2-related factor2 (Nrf2), a key transcription factor for the synthesis of antioxidant and detoxifying enzymes (phase 2). Here, we evaluate the involvement of nuclear factor erythroid 2-related factor2 in gliadin-mediated toxicity in human Caco-2 intestinal cells and in gliadin-sensitive human leukocyte antigen-DQ8 transgenic mice (DQ8) and the protective activity of CLA.

METHODS AND RESULTS: Gliadin effects in differentiated Caco-2 cells and in DQ8 mice, fed with a gliadin-containing diet with or without CLA supplementation, were evaluated by combining enzymatic, immunochemical, immunohistochemical, and quantitative real-time PCR (qRT-PCR) assays. Gliadin toxicity was accompanied by downregulation of phase 2 and elevates proteasome-acylpeptide hydrolase activities in vitro and in vivo. Notably, gliadin was unable to generate severe oxidative stress extent or pathological consequences in DQ8 mice intestine comparable to those found in celiac patients and the alterations produced were hampered by CLA.

CONCLUSION: The beneficial effects of CLA against the depletion of crucial intestinal cytoprotective defenses indicates a novel nutritional approach for the treatment of intestinal disease associated with altered redox homeostasis.