The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those who speak it. ... In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

Tuesday, November 30, 2010

Study: add more carbs be more hungry!

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A new study: "A Paleolithic diet is more satiating per calorie than a Mediterranean-like diet in individuals with ischemic heart disease"

What is remarkable about it, is that the patients felt more satiated and thus ate automatically 24% less by their own choice, and the only major difference between the two tested diets was the amount of carbohydrates (grains)! Everything else was very similar.

Think about it: both groups eat some typical basic foodstuff, then just let one group add 82g more carbohydrates (grains!) plus 13g more fat (oil) per day and what is the main result? - THEY FEEL MORE HUNGRY!

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9 comments :

john said...

Once again, we see why "eat less and exercise more" does not work with popular diet advice.

I stop eating carbs when I am physically uncomfortable. Fats like butter, cream, and suet simply satisfy my appetite and keep me satisfied for a while.

CPM said...

Something else that was interesting was that the Paleo group’s daily average consumption of animal products other than milk /milk products (meat, meat products, fish, eggs) was quite a bit higher (408g vs 248g) whereas the Mediterranean group made up for the missing protein with milk / milk products and vegetable protein. Paleo consumed 39g milk / milk products per day while Mediterranean was 308g.

O Primitivo said...

From the same author:

Jönsson, Tommy (November 23, 2007). Healthy Satiety. Effects of Paleolithic diet on Satiety and Risk factors for Cardiovascular disease. (Doctoral Thesis). Lund University, Sweden. ISBN 9789185897230.

http://lup.lub.lu.se/luur/download?func=downloadFile&recordOId=599209&fileOId=631273

Stan (Heretic) said...

CPM,

There may be something peculiar about milk, as China study has indicated (the real thing not the fake book of the same title). This would be another pointer in favor of paleolithic, that goes beyond just the macronutrients' ratios.

O Primitivo - thanks for the link, really interesting dissertation! I noticed his promoter was the guy who published papers on Kitava diet.

Neonomide said...

At least the satiating effect seems to differ pretty much with different milk products. Milk overall seems to differ with cheese and whey-heavy products out there.

Milk overall has been associated with better satiety though (on SAD of course).

Neonomide said...

I actually consider this new study weaker than the previous duel with MD and paleo, since the last time paleo and MD had about the same absolute amount of protein, as I recall. Lindeberg must be puzzled about the lack of change in leptin metabolism, the main deal with pigs & wheat. :)

Of course, wheat products, margarines and some other elements swedish team seems to consider MD are really not 'true' Cretan MD in a sense Simopoulos and others often perceive it. I think swedish team wants to paint paleo a bit better already in the methodology. Yet MD still a bit sucks in the end. :)

Wheat just may be crack-cocaine though, why make things too difficult...

Neonomide said...

Sry I read it wrong, the absolute protein was the same. Mostly the leptin metabolism was also altered, double sry. ;)

Jönsson's thesis is cool as well, very well worth reading.

Melodie said...

I suppose I'm biased, and being new to this woe, I just can't help but favour the studies that you and Peter (Hyperlipid) present. I realize that we still don't know everything about nutrition and body bio-mechanics, but there is gaining knowledge all the time.

I find it interesting what Don (Primal Wisdom) and others (PHD) etc. switched their views. This is fine, but I just don't get that satisfaction from the studies they present. I do believe that groups like the Kitavans etc. survive and thrive on higher carb diets. For many people simply removing processed CRAP is enough to correct health. For others with metabolic and/or neurological disturbances (to varying degrees), maybe what Don and Jaminet says may not apply to them all that well.

I have a theory, but it is not backed by anything. I am just curious: Do you think that there's a protective factor in one's ability to gain weight easily and the types of illnesses they acquire? I know that obesity has 'more' of a risk for DM2. It seems to me that people who have difficulty gaining weight, or at least are of normal weight are the ones who suffer the digestive issues more readily and have more neurological side effects with standard SAD.

Hmmm...

Stan (Heretic) said...

Melodie wrote:

I have a theory, but it is not backed by anything. I am just curious: Do you think that there's a protective factor in one's ability to gain weight easily and the types of illnesses they acquire? I know that obesity has 'more' of a risk for DM2. It seems to me that people who have difficulty gaining weight, or at least are of normal weight are the ones who suffer the digestive issues more readily and have more neurological side effects with standard SAD.

Totally agree! Sorry for late reply but I think this touches an important issue! I noticed it observing my family friends since childhood, that as many obese as lean people did develop heart disease or diabetes. There is a plausible mechanism that may explain protective role of fatty tissue against hypoglycemic damage. While fatty tissue grows, it uses up excess glucose converting it in situ or in liver to fat and storing it as body fat. They only seem to experience health problem when their fatty tissue stops growing (while they still maintain the same food intake).

It seems to depend also what kind of food people get fat on. Some of my parents' family friends in Poland, people who were obese on a high meat diet did not experience any major health problems and lived till old age. This is anecdotal but to me personally it is an important piece of information. Those kind of exceptions punch a hole in the often believed theory that obesity is supposed to be always harmful.

Regards,
Stan